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Grow Kind: Systems Level Wrap Up

• LifeLabs Learning • Season 3 • Episode 33

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When we look at growth from a systems level, it’s essential that we intentionally consider the people that growth will impact the most. In this special episode of The LeaderLab, we welcome back a few incredible guests from our systems-level Grow Kind series to discuss how the ‘grow kind’ mission came to be at LifeLabs Learning, what we’ve learned about growing kind so far, and what companies can do to grow in a way that benefits the business while still being people-centered, empowering, and energizing. 

Want to help your organization grow kind? Get in touch with us to find out which learning experiences are right for your team.

[Music by Blue Dot Sessions]

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SPEAKER_05:

Welcome to the Leader Lab, the podcast powered by LifeLabs Learning. I'm your host, LifeLabs Leadership Trainer and Director of Product Strategy and Operations, Vanessa Tenisian. Join me and my lab mates as we distill our findings into powerful leadership tipping point skills, the smallest changes that make the biggest impact in the shortest time. We'll also welcome members from our learning community who share how they experiment with these skills in their world of work and beyond. Leader Lab listeners, welcome to the wrap up, our final episode to our systems level portion of our Growing Kind series, where we get all of our guests from the previous episodes to chime in on Growing Kind from a different perspective. Joining me today, we have Robin Long, our chief of staff at Life Labs Learning. What's up, Robin? Hey, Vanessa. We also have Katya Davidova. She's a facilitator and also the author of Joy in Plain Sight. Welcome to the lab, Katya. Thanks so much, everyone. It's a joy to be here. Oh, I like what you did there. We have Ashley Schwade, our director of idea. Hey, hey. And Joey Lim, our impact lead and program consultant extraordinaire. Hello, hello. So we have a powerhouse full of people on the podcast today. Look at that alliteration. And my first question, what were some of your first thoughts when you heard that the theme was growing kind at LifeLabs? Like, how did it land?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I have been nervous about growth for a while because I worry that growth is a business objective more than a people objective. And so the term growing always makes me be like, I'm going to hijack. But thinking about it in a kind way, that balance really eased my nerves because it's a reminder that we can grow in a way that isn't putting risk to people, but instead is centering the people in what we're doing. And so that balance of growing the business, not just for business objective, but for people objective really resonated with me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

So I love that perspective. And we also have Robin on the line who was, you know, instrumental in orchestrating this theme. So Robin, how did GrowKind even come into play?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean, I think like Ash just mentioned this idea that we are a growing organization and we've got lots of goals and that is awesome. But how can we do it in a way that is really supporting and empowering people? So the idea that we can both reach our awesome, lofty, realistic goals, but also just do it in a human centric values aligned fun way. So just being kind of core to who we are and really sticking to our values.

SPEAKER_05:

Absolutely. And Katya, you are kind of on the front line of these experiences that we get to have with companies all over the world where they're also scaling, they're growing. How did GrowKind resonate with you?

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. Such a beautiful question. You know, one of the quotes that I really like to consider is the only constant in the world is change. And those companies that can roll with the tides, that can consistently be amenable to change are the ones who are going to be successful. To what Robin and Ashley said, the concept of putting the folks first before diving into the processes.

SPEAKER_05:

Joey, our impact lead, who's constantly thinking systems level with a lot of the clients that we're partnering with. How does this show up in your world of work?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Talking to clients that come to us, learning how we can help them with skill building and building more efficient systems. I think one of the challenges that I see most often with clients is their business has grown at a rate that has made it really, really difficult for employees to keep up with that growth. So the idea of growing kind, I think, puts that intentionality into the way that we're building systems that support employees to be able to scale with the business so that we are putting people first, like Robin mentioned, and really being able to see the outcomes that we want by putting that intention into it.

SPEAKER_05:

So I feel like I could possibly put myself in the place of a listener and say, okay, growing kind, like yada yada, it's because of the great resignation, it's because of the great reshuffle, like this is not genuine. So my question for you all is, is growing kind just a fad or do you see signs in the marketplace that it's here to stay? I mean, it definitely shouldn't

SPEAKER_01:

fade over time. One of the things that definitely should stick around, I think it may have become a trend as of late, but I do think it should be a trend that's normalized as companies continue to grow so that we can be building deliberate systems and intention into the way that companies are scaling.

SPEAKER_02:

I really agree. I think that part of the reason it's going to stay is because employees have changed what they're demanding from their employers. People have woken up to realize that they are worth more than just being a productive body, that they deserve to be treated as a whole human. And so that means that companies have to rise to the occasion. They can't just grow and let people suffer in the wind. They have to put people in the center of that growth to be able to be successful organizations because we all know the negative impacts of things like the great resignation or of turnover. And so to actually keep employees and to make them feel engaged in a of the company's growth, we have to grow kind.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, absolutely. And thinking about growing kind, it makes me think about joy in the

SPEAKER_03:

really kind of dark places, that's not a great place to be. The intersection of joy, right? And growing kind is such a beautiful Venn diagram because those are the places where people are going to want to come to work.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. And I feel like some people sometimes get a little bit confused about what it means to be joyful in the workplace. And I'll actually toss this on over to Robin because Robin, you've been instrumental in creating LifeLabs culture. You've been here for seven plus years, like shout out to you, a straight up dinosaur up in our midst. But I'm curious, like how Does that show up when you're thinking about systems at LifeLabs, this idea of being joyful or happy? And how does that marry to business needs? Because I can see how people might feel that it conflicts.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my gosh. I mean, I think it's so tied, right? It's basically like, how do we become really productive, awesome, energized, happy versions of ourselves and get out of our own way at work, right? Like this reminds me of just something that I love, which is prioritization. It's probably the thing that I'm like most passionate about right now. And one of our founders once said to me, you can do some things enjoy or try to do everything in misery. Oh,

SPEAKER_05:

wow.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. That really stuck with me, you know, like the idea of trying to do everything and feeling that overwhelm and like you're constantly behind or like you're not doing enough. Like why live like that, right? When we can truly use focus and prioritization so that you can feel accomplished at the end of every day or every quarter. right? Or every year. So I think prioritizing in that way, it truly just brings what's most important to the forefront so that you can feel a sense of accomplishment in your work.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, absolutely. And Robin, you can't talk about all of that without labeling the skill that you talked about on the podcast that does exactly that.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So on a company level, you can use tools like BPS or business priority score. And that literally does that, right? It helps you stick to what what's most important by using a scale and actually having alignment conversation so that we're not trying to do everything. That is not a goal, right? So we are going to focus on a specific number of things and actually be able to accomplish those things and feel more joy.

SPEAKER_05:

Definitely. And I know that there's some lab mates on the line, myself included, driving some of these strategic projects and put a BPS. I'm curious, how has that impacted your way that you see the work? I'll

SPEAKER_02:

toss this on over to Ashley. Yeah. One of the things that actually really resonates with me about BPS is the intersection that it has with the FAIR framework. So in how we make sure that our systems and our practices are forthright, accessible, involved, and rigorous, if we're trying to do everything, we can't be intentional in making sure that what we're doing is FAIR also. And so by assigning things at BPS and understanding what's priority on a business level, we can do less better. Because if we're doing all of the work really quickly, trying to to just move and power through. There's no way that we're going to be accessible, that we're going to be inclusive, that we're going to be able to communicate what we're doing well with everyone who needs to know because we've already moved on to the next thing. And then how can folks actually engage and participate and be a part of the culture that we're building if they don't know what's happening?

SPEAKER_05:

So I'm curious, what other pro tips do we have in the space for what to do when you're rolling out a kind system? Because even if we know in our hearts this is going to make it better for everyone, there's always that initial resistance because Change is hard for the brain.

SPEAKER_04:

One hack that I've been utilizing lately is actually creating a Q&A doc for any new change or new system that we're rolling out. And what's really fun is like as you're in the process of actually creating the new system, you already are getting tons of questions on your way. Because in your conversations with people where you're sort of like collecting ideas, getting early feedback, people are already giving you a taste of what questions they are going to have. So I always jot them down and actually throw them into one Q&A doc, which I then literally answer in a Q&A style so that people feel like, oh my gosh, I actually am getting that question answered as I go and I read this. So that's just one kind of fun, playful way that I've incorporated people's questions even before or sort of during the initial rollout itself.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. And this, I'm getting these like little brain tingle moments because what you're talking about is changing information into knowledge, which was what Katya and Brian talked about in their podcast. Joey, going to toss it on over to you. What's the impact of having these, you know, FAQ docs, these Q&As accompany change in some organizations, including ours?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, I think one thing that this is getting to is just because it's a kind system, don't assume that everyone will just be on board with it. Change management best practices are still going to apply here. We need to make sure that we are doing inclusive planning. We're sharing the context of why we're doing this. And it's really important to have systems that reinforce the way that we want people to respond, react, and act in the workplace. And so having systems that really reinforce the idea of Feedback, transparency, communication are all things that really can build a place where people feel like their voice is heard, which is a kind system in itself.

SPEAKER_05:

Y'all are killing me with these gems. My gosh, it's like, I feel like I should be furiously scribbling down notes. And I know that our listeners are doing so at this very moment. So I want to kind of turn the page on this a little bit and talk about what happens when you discover unkind practices at your company. I'm I'm actually going to back

SPEAKER_02:

that question up because the first step is discovering them,

SPEAKER_00:

right? Like

SPEAKER_02:

we can't do anything about it if we don't know. And so often we create systems that we think are kind, right? Like we wouldn't create them if we thought they were cruel. I mean, but right, like the people creating the systems believe that they are kind, but that doesn't mean that they're kind to everyone and that everyone has the same experience with them. And so I think the first stage of this is making sure that people can offer feedback on systems. Thank you so much. people trying to change the system who originally created it, then I sometimes worry that we're going to end up back in the same place of having a system that's not kind to everyone.

SPEAKER_03:

Ash, I really like what you mentioned about the psychological safety for folks to be able to give feedback to the systems and processes creators. I think the other extension of that is to be able to show people at an organization that progress is being made. The brain loves a sense of progress.

SPEAKER_05:

Definitely. Joey, I'm curious in your work with clients, how do you evaluate if your kind system is actually working? Like, how do I know that this thing that I did is doing what I wanted

SPEAKER_01:

it to do? Yeah, I think this is where numbers become particularly important. So at the beginning of our strategic planning process, we often identify the measures of success for that system, which ideally have numbers associated with them so that we can easily tell whether something is working or isn't working. So even if that number is associated with a feeling, like, for example, that feeling of kindness or feeling like I'm being well-treated Such as an engagement survey response, we'd ideally have a number to identify where we are and where we want to be so that we know whether we've gotten there.

SPEAKER_05:

So this kind of a gap analysis to get us started there. Perfect. Strategic thinking workshop always comes in handy. Robin, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean, plus one, right? Like basically setting an objective at the beginning and making sure you can measure it just to get kind of meta with it, especially with what Joey just mentioned around strategic planning. One example is that we actually set out to create a kinder system for our strategic planning process at LifeLabs. And our goal was to increase team-wide alignment around what's most important. So similar to using a BPS score, right? But we actually created a metric for this. So we asked everyone who joined the strategic planning process to rate how they felt about alignment and focus on a scale of one to five. And we started at a 4.2. And after implementing some changes, we actually ended up at a 4.7. So A, we got to immediately see progress. But B, just because it's a 4.7 today, right, doesn't mean it's going to continue to be a 4.7. So after each planning cycle, I'm going to continue to run this survey. And I'm going to expect that as we grow, as things change at this organization, we may need to make further changes. And I will have a heads up.

SPEAKER_02:

Can I say something kind of controversial? Yes, please. I

SPEAKER_05:

love controversy.

SPEAKER_02:

Bring it. the drama. Because I really, really love thinking about how data can support our work. And I've seen a trend lately that makes me a little bit nervous, not necessarily at LifeLabs, just in the world, that we're looking at data because we know we need it and we're looking at it as majority. And we're seeing outliers as just that, as outliers. And when we do that, what we're doing is making decisions based on majority, which is a common practice. But I worry that then we're not centering people who are on the margins and how we make our decisions. And we're looking at what most people at And if we're always deciding on practices based on majority, we're going to continually be missing the folks who are historically and presently marginalized and experiencing less access and increased microaggressions and different challenges in work that maybe we don't always see because we're just focusing on the majority of people who are impacted. Definitely

SPEAKER_05:

that. So Robin, I see a response on the tip of your tongue.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I was just going to say like absolutely plus one. And we actually do have a practice that I totally recommend for others. If you do see outlier numbers, open up the floor. Ask them to share what makes their number the score that they gave. You are going to learn a lot by listening to those. So just a huge plus one.

SPEAKER_05:

100%. In the pursuit of growth, there's also a lot of communication that we have with our teammates. And sometimes it can feel like survey fatigue happens, that people get tired of sharing their thoughts on how things are going. So I'm curious, what can we do to combat that? How can we continue to give people a voice in a way that is brain-friendly. I

SPEAKER_02:

think there's a lot of different ways we can think about bringing people's voices in. Surveys are one, but I also like to call mini-surveys pulse checks. It's still a survey, but if you call it something different, it feels less like a survey. And you can do pulse checks in different formats, right? Maybe you do your big surveys with a tool like CultureAmp, right? But maybe you can do pulse checks on Slack, right? There's so many different options of how it can work that feels less of the same. And the other is rely on your managers. Hope managers have a good pulse on what's happening with their teams and can report back trends as well. Because if they can ask specific questions during one-on-ones and then report those trends back up to their department heads, then it feels less like a survey and more just like a conversation that people are having.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, definitely. And I think the other thing to make mention is accessible leadership, right? So this idea that we have the ability to have a conversation directly with the driver who is impacting that work. So for instance, at LifeLabs, instead some other companies that we've worked with, CEOs, everybody in leadership have office hours where people can actually set up time to have a conversation. And I think that's done a lot of good as we've been growing kind. Katya, I want to pass the baton over to you for a moment. And I'd like to think about this idea of growing kind impacted your personal life in any way. Has it shifted the way that you've thought about work and life?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, Vanessa, beautiful question. Because at the end of the day, right, our work directly impacts the way that we show up outside of work, because it's all intertwined. Something that I like to consider is the phrase, choose your heart. So in choosing our heart, we can actually make that deliberate choice where I can show up as my best self, even if I'm having a pretty crappy day. How do I do this for my team, for my organization, and for my loved ones outside of work?

SPEAKER_05:

So the next question I'm going to roll into will be for you, Joey. As our impact lead, you are really here to help make sure our clients are getting as much as they can out of training. And I also know that leadership buy-in can be really tough when doing new things. So what are some of the things that you counsel clients who are looking to make changes at their organization? What are some of the first things that they can do to make a growing kind change?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think this is a really important question. And I think it starts with we're at a place where employees will leave if they don't feel like there are kind systems that support their well-being both at work and outside of work. And the cost of replacing an employee, as we know, is like around six to nine months of their salary. And so knowing that many leaders are concerned with the bottom line. I think kind systems are in their best interest. I'll also say that a lot of Gallup's research has pointed to that more engaged, happy employees are higher performing. And so when we think about how we can communicate how changes need to be made and what changes need to be made to leaders, of course, we want to speak to the business part of it because that's often what leaders are concerned about. But I also think about what about their lives? We're thinking about how this is going to really impact their own well-being and their own feelings about what they're doing within the business, how they're impacting other people's lives, how they work and how they show up. They're people just like us. So I think really understanding what speaks to them on a personal level is just as advantageous about speaking to what is in best service of the business.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, absolutely. So getting them to recognize their humanity and realize that mankind benefits everyone. CEOs are people too. Rob?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Also some advice I have is do a small experiment and then like talk up and show its success, right? So I always think about what's the lightweight version of your system or the thing you're trying to roll out. So you can create a small pilot, get feedback, get some learnings, already make some adjustments. And what's really cool is if it's a proven win and you've already solved for some of the objections, it's really just an easier pitch to leadership. Yeah,

SPEAKER_05:

definitely. So that minimum viable product, like what is that thing that we were gonna put out there, test our assumptions and iterate on and see if it's something that we want to do. So I have one more question for the group. And I'd love to hear everybody chime in on this one. We'll start with Ashley. What else should we know about growing kind from a systems level? Any other words to impart on our listeners out there?

SPEAKER_02:

I like to think about this kind of in three different lenses. And I think this is something that most folks in business can resonate with. There's the business objectives, right? The things that are aimed at growing the business. There's the client objectives. So the users, the clients would do they need? What are they asking for? What do they want? And then there's the people objectives, the things that are affecting those who work internally. And oftentimes we find ourselves having to prioritize two of those three. And it's hard to prioritize all three. And so I would encourage actually doing an audit of maybe some of the most recent changes or most recent systems that have been rolled out and ask what was prioritized in this decision? Was it business? Was it clients? Was it people? And notice if there's one that's missing. So that way you can be more intentional and more cognizant of that going forward.

SPEAKER_05:

Fabulous. So doing a a quick assessment of how are you thinking about the priorities of your business and that three-pronged approach. Love that. Joey, what about for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, in my episode, I talked about the skill of being able to reinforce your ethos. And so something just to keep in mind with kind systems, first of all, is your ethos something that resonates as kindness, really making sure that you're looking at how do we want to make people feel at work? How do we want to identify as a company? And is that being Thank you for that, Joey. Let's toss it on over to Katya.

SPEAKER_03:

is the deliberate act of pausing to do something called a link-up check, which means at every step of our change rollout, asking ourselves, well, why does this matter? And why does that matter? Now, this sounds almost right. The point is that not everyone knows and that intentional pause to link up to a higher team level, organizational level goal can really help align people on why are we doing this at the end of the day?

SPEAKER_05:

Love that. And to wrap us up, we have Robin Long.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, so something I carry a lot about that all people within an organization feel they have a voice to learn more, asking questions, getting all the information that you need in order to be able to suggest changes that are going to make a big difference in your work experience, right? Like the fact that we all are sort of shared owners of this experience here at this company, right? And not one person is more of an owner than another. And I think that, so pausing to ask around, like, why is this thing this way and kind of understanding the full scope and then creating, you know, I really urge leaders to create systems that help all employees speak up. So like at LifeLabs, for example, we have a proposal system that I'm really excited about and very proud of and that Vanessa is quite great at using. Shout out to Kind

SPEAKER_05:

Fridays, baby.

SPEAKER_04:

So basically creating deliberate forums for people to help the organization grow kindly.

SPEAKER_05:

Fantastic. So it's not all up to the leaders. It's up to everyone in an organization to help us grow kind. All right. So I'll call that a wrap on the wrap up. Thank you all so much for joining me on the Leader Lab today. Thanks for having us, Vanessa.

SPEAKER_04:

Thanks, Vanessa. Thanks, Vanessa. See you soon.

SPEAKER_02:

See you soon.

SPEAKER_05:

And that's a wrap of another episode of The Leader Lab Podcast, powered by LifeLabs Learning. If you're loving The Leader Lab, subscribe so you never miss an episode. The Leader Lab is executive produced and hosted by me, Vanessa Tenisian. Alana Berman is our creative director and senior editor. Juliana Jack is our assistant editor. Lauren Feller is our associate producer. And Yadier James is our senior producer. You can find all our episodes, transcripts, and more at lifelabslearning.com slash podcast. While you're there, you can learn more about our learning programs to help you build an engaged high impact team faster. See you in the lab.