How does your company convert information into knowledge that’s accessible org-wide? The LeaderLab invites Brian Dann, certified Knowledge Manager, and Katya Davydova, author and leadership facilitator, to share the 4D Model of Knowledge Management. Brian, Katya, and Vanessa discuss how this tool helps companies organize, socialize, and deepen their knowledge base at scale even during times of rapid growth.
Want to help your organization grow kind? Get in touch with us to find out which learning experiences are right for your team.
[Music by Blue Dot Sessions]
How does your company convert information into knowledge that’s accessible org-wide? The LeaderLab invites Brian Dann, certified Knowledge Manager, and Katya Davydova, author and leadership facilitator, to share the 4D Model of Knowledge Management. Brian, Katya, and Vanessa discuss how this tool helps companies organize, socialize, and deepen their knowledge base at scale even during times of rapid growth.
Want to help your organization grow kind? Get in touch with us to find out which learning experiences are right for your team.
[Music by Blue Dot Sessions]
Vanessa Tanicien: (00:04)
Welcome to The LeaderLab, the podcast powered by LifeLabs Learning. I'm your host LifeLabs leadership trainer and director of product strategy and operations Vanessa Tanicien. Join me and my Labmates as we distill our findings into powerful leadership tipping point skills, the smallest changes that make the biggest impact in the shortest time. We'll also welcome members from our learning community who share how they experiment with these skills in their world of work and beyond.
Vanessa Tanicien: (00:36)
Aloha listeners. And welcome back to The LeaderLab, where we're talking about how to grow kind. If you're just tuning in, you might be asking yourself, what does growing kind mean? It's how do we provide ourselves with the tools and skills to grow sustainably so that way we're not surviving, but we're truly thriving as we scale. Today, I have two incredible human beings who also happen to be facilitators at LifeLabs Learning. First, I have Brian Dann, in addition to being a facilitator, he's also a certified knowledge manager and was also a licensed asbestos abater in a different life. We'll definitely have to ask him about that one. And then we have Katya Davydova. She's a fantastic author who has a book coming out all about celebrating the joy and wonder of the ordinary. So welcome to the podcast you all. How you doing?
Brian Dann: (01:28)
Hey Vanessa, how are you?
Katya Davydova: (01:28)
Hey, Vanessa. It's so wonderful to be here. Thanks for having us.
Vanessa Tanicien: (01:30)
Yes, I am so, so excited to have you both. And this is the first time we're doing sort of a double whammy on the podcast, having two people talk about a topic. So it must be a really big, important topic.
Brian Dann: (01:45)
Yeah. It's pretty important.
Katya Davydova: (01:46)
Double whammy, double the knowledge.
Vanessa Tanicien: (01:47)
Double whammy, double the knowledge. Yeah. What are we talking about today you all?
Brian Dann: (01:50)
Well, not only do you have two people here, but you have two knowledge management nerds.
Katya Davydova: (01:54)
Brian, do you want to take a stab at explaining info versus knowledge?
Brian Dann: (01:57)
Yeah. So we can think of information as just a series of data points, right? So a good example would be that if I'm at a traffic light, the light is red. Where knowledge is really understanding something that we gain from experience, exposure, and sharing. And so knowledge is a lot deeper than information. So to use that same example, knowledge is knowing that if I run through a red light, I might get hurt or someone else might get hurt. And so why does this matter? It matters because there is so much information that we all have to be responsible for now. People are getting burnt out and so information needs to become knowledge. Knowledge is important because it creates ownership. When our folks in our organization have more knowledge, they get less frustrated because they understand how things work. They can get more done in less time.
Katya Davydova: (02:47)
And that social aspect to knowledge is an important part to remember. If I have a piece of information that says, Hey, this client is requesting this type of specification, what good does that do for other people? It doesn't matter until we share it, until it becomes something that we can play with, that we can ultimately use.
Vanessa Tanicien: (03:03)
Katya, let's talk about the flip side here. If we don't convert information into knowledge, what's the downside?
Katya Davydova: (03:10)
Sure. This matters because as Brian said, we are drowning. The amount of information that has surfaced in the world in our workplaces is exponential. And unless we take that delivered pause, we're going to keep drowning. We're going to keep feeling like we're underwater and like we cannot handle the day to day. And so we collaborate less effectively. We spend more time trying to search for the relevant information, knowledge, and we continue feeling burnt out. So it's really crucial to have the system where we can not only show up to work well, but also show up as human beings and grow kind.
Vanessa Tanicien: (03:41)
Oh my gosh. Okay. So my nerdy brain is just,
Brian Dann: (03:44)
Yeah, we're getting nerdy.
Vanessa Tanicien: (03:45)
Tingling right now. I'm curious. What does the research say?
Brian Dann: (03:49)
A good model to take here is the Nonaka knowledge spiral. It sounds really fancy and it is.
Vanessa Tanicien: (03:56)
And tasty.
Brian Dann: (03:56)
Yeah. And tasty, right? It sounds like ice cream. And so here's really what it means though, right? That knowledge starts with socialization, then externalization. And this is where people start to out loud, make some decisions about what knowledge matters. From there we want to take existing knowledge and combine it with that new knowledge to make deeper, more meaningful knowledge. This is called combination. And the last phase is where we take that combined knowledge, I've learned all these things and then I'm going to use it and practice it. And this is called internalization. This process really matters because this is how we continue this cycle. We continuously build our internal knowledge and help other people expand their knowledge by having this spiral exchange.
Vanessa Tanicien: (04:39)
Ah, the spiral honestly gave me goosebumps, but it also is a lot of information. That's so funny.
Brian Dann: (04:45)
Yeah.
Vanessa Tanicien: (04:45)
It's a lot of information to take in. So how can we take all that information you just shared with me and turn that into knowledge for me and our listeners? What is the growing kind tool that we'll be walking through today?
Katya Davydova: (04:57)
Well, here's the good news is that Brian and I have come up with this four D model.
Brian Dann: (05:02)
And really this is a way for you as a company or even just as a leader to transition information into knowledge.
Katya Davydova: (05:10)
And the reason that we say it's four D is because knowledge is multi-dimensional, it doesn't live on just one axis. So let's talk about the four D steps, discovery, design, deliberate, distribution, and a deepening of knowledge.
Brian Dann: (05:24)
So discovery, right, this is the point at which we decide if something is worthwhile knowledge. So we can ask ourself questions, like is this new info something that I need or the team needs? And what is this knowledge ultimately solving for?
Vanessa Tanicien: (05:37)
Oh my gosh. So it's the job to be done of the knowledge.
Brian Dann: (05:40)
Yeah.
Vanessa Tanicien: (05:40)
Okay. So what's the second piece Katya?
Katya Davydova: (05:44)
And after taking that delicious pause in the discovery phase, we move onto the design phase. Now this is where all the nuts and bolts get aligned. We ask three main questions, the who, the where and the how. First we have the who, who is this knowledge for? Second, where does it live? Where in the virtual map of our organizational system, we can access it. And then finally it's the how right? What's the simplest way that we can capture that knowledge and actually convey this information in a way that makes sense?
Vanessa Tanicien: (06:11)
Information means nothing if no one can use it, if no one can find it. Brian, what's the next step here?
Brian Dann: (06:17)
Knowledge is useless if we're not getting it to the right people. And so this is where deliberate distribution really matters. What this is about is how you're going to let people know about this new knowledge. So first and foremost, who needs this? What's the best way to let people know that this is now a new part of their job? How does that communication get rolled out? And so really thinking deliberately about how you're sharing this information and coming up with a comms plan.
Vanessa Tanicien: (06:42)
So, so important to think about, getting that just in time information to just the right people. And Katya, let's go ahead and wrap up these four Ds. What's the last D? Don't keep us in suspense.
Katya Davydova: (06:53)
Yes. The last D is the deepening, which means that after we've communicated knowledge, after it gets to the right hands, the work is still not done because we need to find a way to integrate it into our existing knowledge and also find a way to make it inherently social.
Vanessa Tanicien: (07:07)
Katya, you are just really letting my heart flutter right now because how hard it is to actually get information into this knowledge space. And Brian, would you mind kicking us off in a little show and tell, how do we get this thing done?
Brian Dann: (07:21)
So discovery, right, I think one thing to keep in mind here is thinking first about a problem.
Vanessa Tanicien: (07:26)
So one of the things that I'm currently working on at the product team at LifeLabs is just making sure people actually know what the product team is doing. Because we are a growing business, there's a lot of interest in what we're creating and how people can contribute. So I just want to create some visibility there.
Katya Davydova: (07:41)
So Vanessa, in thinking about that and thinking about the best ways to propagate that information forward, what is your current way that you want to design this knowledge sharing mechanism? How are you going to get it out there?
Vanessa Tanicien: (07:52)
That is a great question. I mean, there's so many different ways to do it, but in talking about like, who is it for? It's legitimately for every Labmate. So I probably need to do something that's very visible and shareable when I'm designing it. And it probably also needs to be visual. So that way people can easily see what they need. As I'm saying it out loud, it sounds like just a good old fashioned product roadmap. That might be a good place to start.
Katya Davydova: (08:20)
I love it. I love it. In order to distribute it out, does that look like an email? Does it look like a playbook? What are you thinking?
Vanessa Tanicien: (08:27)
To start, we have a newsletter internally called the What's Up, is letting everybody know about it in the What's Up and then probably effective frequency in our department meetings, asking people to bookmark it and things like that would probably go far.
Brian Dann: (08:40)
And so then the last and most important part is how do you create deepened knowledge with this product roadmap with Labmates?
Vanessa Tanicien: (08:48)
Wow, this is coming fresh right in this moment. I haven't asked department leaders to reference the product roadmap when talking about product. Should 100% do that. It's like getting people,
Brian Dann: (08:57)
What a cool insight.
Vanessa Tanicien: (08:58)
Yeah, to use the tool. Honestly, the four D is thinking about this product communication problem, going through discovery, design, distribution, and deepening has already led me to another insight. At this point, I wish I could continue talking about the transfer of information to knowledge forever, especially because you two are so well versed in this, but it's time for our LeaderLab listener experiment. So Brian and Katya, what are we asking people to experiment with in their laboratories of life?
Katya Davydova: (09:29)
We ask for listeners to take that delivered pause and to say, what type of knowledge do I currently house that I could maybe share with others in order to increase and deepen the entire knowledge base of your team or organization?
Vanessa Tanicien: (09:42)
Fantastic. So Brian, any final thoughts for those aspiring knowledge managers out there?
Brian Dann: (09:48)
Ooh, what a big question. Knowledge is not a solo art.
Vanessa Tanicien: (09:53)
Oh my gosh. Wow.
Brian Dann: (09:55)
And so involve the right people at the right time.
Vanessa Tanicien: (10:08)
And that's a wrap of another episode of the LeaderLab podcast powered by LifeLabs Learning. If you're loving the LeaderLab, subscribe so you never miss an episode. The LeaderLab is executive produced and hosted by me, Vanessa Tanicien. Alana Burman is our Creative Director and Senior Editor. Julianna Jack is our Assistant Editor. Lauren Feller is our Associate Producer and NeEddra James is our Senior Producer. You can find all our episodes, transcripts and more at lifelabslearning.com/podcast. While you're there, you can learn more about our learning programs to help you build an engaged high impact team faster. See you in the lab.
Brian Dann: (10:46)
So here's a fun fact about asbestos. There are two kinds of asbestos. One is fryable and the other is non fryable. You might be wondering, Brian, why does that matter? Well, asbestos is dangerous for you. And so non fryable asbestos, so like tiles are non fryable asbestos. You can only get harmed by it if you eat it. However, fryable asbestos, the stuff that looks like insulation that you can kind of rub your fingers with and it becomes particles in the air. That's super dangerous. All you have to do is be around it. So fun fact.
Katya Davydova: (11:18)
Spread knowledge, not asbestos.